Re: Further usability improvements: simplifying na... - Page 4

Arthur_Rallu · 12-06-2022 04:53 PM

Hello AppSheet Community,

One of the team’s goals is to make it easier for all app creators to build applications by bringing focus to the core concepts and tasks and by providing information and “shortcuts” in the relevant context. We rolled out some of these changes in October and shared this initial announcement.

We’re now excited to announce 2 new updates are starting to roll out today. They are follow-ups to the October changes.

First, we’re introducing a secondary navigation that lets you see at a quick glance all your components - whether we’re talking about is your data, your views, format rules, actions and automation components. This should also let you access any individual component more quickly.

As part of this change, suggestions will be available for all components and will be more targeted based on the context you are in (e.g. which Table you are creating a Format Rule for). You’ll also notice that error and warning messages are now shown via a status icon that is always visible in the header.

Secondary navigation menu (left) and Error & Warning status in header bar (top right)

Second, in the same spirit as earlier changes and to be able to make a specific edit to your app without jumping into a different context, there are more direct links in your View component to the table, column or action that you want to check or edit. For example, when you are working on a Deck View, you should not need to click 3, 4 or even 5 times just to check the settings of a column or of an action. This should make more obvious what is possible, especially for users who are new to AppSheet, and make navigation throughout your app components faster.

GIF showing accessing relevant components quickly and editing them on the fly

The secondary navigation menu and its associated changes will be available to everyone. Similarly to the primary navigation menu rolled out in October, you can revert to the legacy navigation patterns if you’re facing an issue. Details are in the FAQ section below.

Let us know if you have any feedback.

Thank you

The AppSheet Team

FAQ

How do I opt in and out of the navigational changes?

App creators can currently opt-in and out of the navigation changes at will. The changes apply to the App Editor experience, independent of the app you are editing. You can opt in and out by clicking on this icon in the top navigation bar.

Is there some documentation?

Yes, we’re updating the relevant pages in our documentation. We’re also introducing a new page that summarizes the changes across the Editor. See Summary of improvements in the app editor (preview).

Where do I report issues and provide feedback?

Contact Support or directly in this thread.

Are you planning on maintaining the two navigation models?

Long term, no, we’re moving towards the new navigational model. For the next few months, we will support both navigation models as we make additional changes to how people navigate through the Editor. We want to work out the kinks before it becomes the only one.

When will the legacy navigational model be unavailable?

We don’t have a hard set date on this. That will depend on how fast we can work out the kinks in the new navigation.

Why don’t I see anything yet?

We’re rolling out these changes progressively and it might take a few days to a few weeks before you can see them in your own account.

I provided some feedback on the previous changes (from October). Are you taking it into account?

We did read the feedback provided by our community. We may not have addressed it yet - whether it’s making an update or it’s deciding not to make any changes.

WillowMobileSys

I am seeing the same.

Koichi_Tsuji

Yeah, this is super frastrating..... (I have not tested new editor layout, but this is constantly happening on current UX)

@Arthur_Rallu

Rifad

I noticed it too and its very frustrating. When you press ’copy’ button it just creates n number of actions in background.

Steve

It's like the developers don't use their product.

Because they don't. Not in any meaningful way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_testing_(software)

hien_nguyen

Hi Dev Team, Where are you?

There are many basic bug with appsheet.

hien_nguyen

I see amost of functions such as lookup() for new row from ref column, sum([Related tables][Qty]) or select() don't working in form view of new desktop. Please fix bugs asapp.

Rifad

@hien_nguyen must read this article by @pravse https://medium.com/@pravse/the-maze-is-in-the-mouse-980c57cfd61a

Arthur_Rallu

Hi @hien_nguyen
In general, it's best to report this in the Desktop UI Public Preview thread. Different engineers work on that feature. In this particular case, no need to report it there since we're already aware.
Thanks

benhare

So, one of the devs here, and wanted to reply in general on the thread just to mention - I may not respond to everything, I'm an engineer after all and not necessarily the best with words, but I do read everything that's posted. Several improvements/fixes have occurred directly because of things that were mentioned in this thread and I try to call out those things in our release notes when they happen (column searching/remembering open and closed groups/etc).

I'm sure that some of you would prefer I respond to everything, and I'm sorry that I don't. But I do value constructive feedback and opinions, and we try to incorporate comments into future releases (the "scroll to created thing" commented on above for instance is something I want to add in). Not a guarantee that we will, but again I appreciate the conversation here.

Steve

Please do something to make the Data view easier to navigate for apps with many tables and slices, like this one:

The above is not the entire list.

Unexpanding everything every time I navigate back to Data is untenable. Would much prefer it all start collapsed, or give me a "collapse all" button. Would also like it to preserve its state ~~as I navigate away from Data and return~~. Ideally, it would preserve it across saves, reloads, and restarts~~, too~~.

benhare

Is it not preserving expanded/collapsed state when you move between tabs (not refreshing/reloading I know that doesn't work, but while moving around the same app it should be remembering the state)? I hear your other comments - I just want to fast figure out if there's some bug with what we wrote for that feature.

dbaum

@Steve wrote:

a "collapse all" button

Yes, please!!!!!!

Denzil_Snyman

On my app Desktop or mobile use a deck view with maintenance categories split into three slices, not started, in progress and complete.

In this view if I expand a category group, click on card it goes to a specific detail view using ID. When I go back each time from the detail view using back arrow, the groups in each slice are always all reset again...

i go back, using back button.

Is s this normal? As it's quite inconvenient if navigating in this manner.

I use click on card with a Linktoview however thought with the back button that the state of expanded group to still be intact. Initial view landing should always be collapsed.

Denzil_Snyman

In my case, the desktop view remembers the selected group category state in left pane when arriving back from the detail view of a card, however in mobile view it goes back to an initial fully collapsed state as if it was the first time I landed there. When navigating forwards and the backwards in mobile view I would expect to go backwards via the same screen state it came from previously and if back is clicked again, it goes onto its fully collapsed state as the initial starting screen.

Steve

@benhare wrote:

Is it not preserving expanded/collapsed state when you move between tabs (not refreshing/reloading I know that doesn't work, but while moving around the same app it should be remembering the state)?

Ah, yes, indeed it does! I suppose I've just been conditioned to not try. Still, though, collapsing so many is tedious, and recollapsing them after every save is just that much worse. Starting collapsed would be much preferred.

benhare

I don't disagree with an expand/collapse button in principle (I think personally I'd go the route of having them all open, but having a collapse all/remembering that state route through page refresh for people who like it your way just so we aren't hiding things unless someone is explicit), I just don't know where to put it. Am chatting with UX about it.

dbaum

I've encountered an aspect of the new editor UI that's a significant degradation of usability. We really, really, really need a way to easily find automation tasks--importantly, both linked and unlinked--of a given type.

I'm using the app upgrade functionality for the first time since the editor UI changed. One crucial step I have to perform every time I upgrade a production app using a development app is to change the "App Id" in each "Call a webhook" task (that is preset for the AppSheet API) from the development app to the production app. As I have suggested elsewhere, it would be very helpful to be able to Filter tasks by category. Failing that, I (like other app creators) established a task naming convention to facilitate finding all the webhook tasks (e.g., including "webhook" in the task name) so that I can be sure to comprehensively update their "App Id" properties when upgrading an app. However, in the new editor UI only linkable components can be displayed and searched/filtered. Unlinked tasks can only be accessed via their parent automation and process, and there's no way to search those tasks by name. Fortunately, I'm currently able to revert to the legacy editor to easily filter in one place all my app's linked and unlinked webhook tasks so that I can be sure I don't miss updating any. Without the legacy editor, this exercise would be very tedious and prone to error.

The same process, and, therefore, the same issue exists for other task types with properties that reference external resources--e.g., "Call a script" tasks, all tasks that use template files.

There are myriad ways that the app upgrade process could be streamlined, and I hope that functionality will be optimized some day. Meanwhile, please find a way to avoid compromising the workarounds that app creators rely on to make the critical upgrade process at least feasible to use.

Arthur_Rallu

Thank you for the thoughtful explanation. We need to discuss this internally.

Karimmc2

Hi, talking of editor improvements, is there a first party expression editor on the horizon?

Not 100% sure if this is the thread to ask this so I also posted it as a feature idea: Text (expressions) editor

audacious

Hi, I started using AppSheet a week ago (and loved it) and could use the secondary navigation panel you're mentioning in this thread. But since I deployed & upgraded my app, I noticed this secondary navigation panel disappeared and I can't figure out why. I now have to navigate between tabs like "Table, "Columns", "Slices" or "User Settings" which seem to be part of the legacy editor (but the improved editor is enabled for my app). Any idea? Thanks!

WillowMobileSys

@audacious wrote:

I noticed this secondary navigation panel disappeared and I can't figure out why

Maybe you inadvertently toggled to the Legacy Editor? There is a button to switch back and forth. See image.

audacious

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I'm aware of this button and I did enable/disable the improved editor by clicking it but this does not help bringing back my secondary nav panel 😞

I also got an answer from AppSheet Support team: "We would like to inform you that the improved app editor is currently in preview state and the updates are being rolled out. We would also like to inform you that the improved app editor is not recommended for production use."

benhare

Glad you're enjoying the feature, it should be released to most of the remaining paid users this week (other than some who have explicitly asked to continue to wait). I'm not sure why they told you it wasn't recommended for production use, as it is (or at least it's not, not recommended like it's as recommended as the legacy way depending on your preference), let me talk to them.

audacious

Thanks for clarifying. Looking forward to it since it improves my productivity!

benhare

Spoke to them - that advice (to not use the new navigation) was given in error as I suspected. It happens, thanks for mentioning it so that I could reach out and correct it.

WillowMobileSys

I assume by "secondary nav panel" you are referring to the circled portion in the image below?

I have been using the new Editor in all my apps and have not seen any issues with it at all. I don't really see the issue since it's really just a new UI on top of the already existing functionality. But....

audacious

Yes, I'm talking about this nav panel. Apparently, they're releasing these features gradually to paid users. I had them last week as a free user.

WillowMobileSys

Yes, that is typical. Free Users are the testers. Then rollout to paid users in batches to minimize issues should any arise.

audacious

Yes, funny thing here is that I'm a completely new user so I feel like I could've got these new features directly. The risk was minimal.

benhare

I was also just lacking a good way to separate new users like you from some of our other customers who wanted it to be delayed until last week. I didn't anticipate this split being true for this long originally, so I'm glad that I can release it to pretty much everyone this week.

WillowMobileSys

Actually, I don't think it would be good business practice to give new, potentially bug-ridden, functionality to new paying customers. You want new users to get the best experience possible so they can provide good reviews and pass on the word!

Denzil_Snyman

Will the toggle not just appear for rest of us and any users can remain on legacy, then the few of us left that would like feature can toggle it on manually so? No disruptions as I beleive the action button appears but will not be enabled by default. .

WillowMobileSys

@Denzil_Snyman wrote:

Will the toggle not just appear for rest of us and any users can remain on legacy,

This isn't just plugging in the new. Top level web pages were redesigned to be able to support the toggling between the two...as well as other features. Think of it as a total replacement of the Editor UI. You wouldn't roll out completely new software to everyone. If there was a severe error then everyone would be impacted and that wouldn't be good.

benhare

So, happy to announce this week that we'll be releasing this feature to the rest of our paid users (except for a subset who have explicitly asked not to have it released to them yet).

benhare

Hello all - we should be released now to everyone (bar some customers who explicitly asked not to have this yet) 🙂 Thank you for your patience.

Marc_Dillon

Finally got the new editor UI on the enterprise account that I spend most of my time on. Love it!

2 minor issues that I've found so far, and 1 suggestion:

Sometimes (could be upon saving/reloading with the editor in a certain state) the upper-right table options (view data source, add VC, regen, table config, addtnl 3-dot menu) become inaccessible/hidden when the emulator is in tablet mode. It's like they're hidden behind the emulator. Switching to mobile and back makes them appear again. (could also be a Firefox-only issue)
There's no longer any way to quickly open formula editor for show_if/edit_if/require_if from the main column list view?
Referring again to the upper-right table options, can all of these please be added into the 3-dot menu for each table in the left side-panel? I'd love to be able to quickly access the table config (like to view it's Security Filter), or preview data on one table, while looking at the columns of another table.

Rifad

@benhare

@benhare wrote:

Genuine question: is there a reason you aren't using the search to find what you want?

I rarely use search while working on actions. Why do you need search when all actions are expanded.

Search is only used BEFORE expanding all required actions. Once expanded then keep working on all expanded action. In new UI I have no idea how many time I have searched for actions in between working on actions.

Rifad

@Marc_Dillon wrote:

I think the new editor is a HUGE improvement in terms of working on many actions at the same time.

How do you even understand CURRENTLY working action’s each time from list across N number of tables ? Expanded view helps a lot. Didn’t have to think of finding back an action in between a task i am working on.

Marc_Dillon

Sorry, I don't understand what that question means.

Denzil_Snyman

In lue of the new editor and keeping the core essence of low code alive, giving people with the aptitude to engineer software without the need for any heavy code. The barriers that can never be resolved is a unified visual approach that suits all. Each of us visualize our data and framework based on our own understanding and engineering techniques, this down to the very way each of us even label something to have conformity. I beleive the editor may not suite many however still allows us to achieve things easier and faster. The method unfortunately will require every one of us to accept the platform and it's limitations, from there we can bend as far as possible being low code, doing things like others never did before, yet providing the streamlined software we envisioned by choosing the platform.

I do beleive us evolving is the very nature of low code platforms, it will always shift and it must, otherwise it will defeat the very reason this was built. So I can agree some approaches may not suite everyone, but if it does others then I stand looking within to see how I must evolve to keep this moving forward instead of hampering its progress. It can only get better and already I am blessed to work on this platform and what it means in this world of business in the 21st century. I write this to try get us citizens and business minded platform engineers to remember what appsheets vision is and I beleive its doing great, for some of us we must accept change and try find middle ground to stay true to the reason Appsheet came alive, Google must nurture this platform remembering that it was built for us creators, us magical humans that can build magical things although confined to boundaries, our creativity must extend into the staff evolving this platform, they will understand that we are artists of our own perception. So I am all for evolving, but as long as Google understands what these platforms actually mean to us as individuals. Our creations mean alot to us, we are not just programmers, we are something new and came to be from how Appsheets initial vision was structured. Staff here must Remember this about us users and creators, I beleive this appsheet journey is still in infancy and greater things are to come. Let's collaborate rather than disintegrate.

Further usability improvements: simplifying navigation in the Editor