Can we have some transparency here?

[SkrOYC]

Transparency? What's that?

In short, I'm worried about AppSheet's future. Particularly, our future as AppSheet creators.

This has been a common problem since the adquisition and what has me confused and wondering about the future is how AppSheet is more and more integrated in Workspace.

For once and for all, is AppSheet going to be usable just as an Editor inside Workspace or not?

A hint for this is that the "Duet AI" asks for a Google account, so... are new features going to be tied to Google and a Google account?

Googlers, do you even care about our privacy concerns?

[Rafael_ANEIC-PY]

Nice one btw

[MultiTech]

What's all this then???

[SkrOYC]

I'm not a Google user, and I feel like this is the case for many other editors and Google just doesn't care about us and our way to work.

We came from a platform that was not Google's so why are they pushing us to that direction.

Look at people that now has to be in Google Cloud Platform / Workspace to be able to have AppSheet Enterprise. I'm being pushed to that with no need.

I'm just trying to get a sense of where this goes to get out of it before it's too late/expensive. We deserve that kind of transparency.

The fact that AppSheet is now a Google service doesn't mean we should be pushed to use the other ones that we don't care/want or even reject.

Another example, I was going to have a client that's chinese and has a company in Australia as well as my country. Now that AppSheet is Googlefied I'm out of luck since AppSheet being now a Google product we have no certain that will work in the future in mainland China as Google absorves every inch from the platform

[WillowMobileSys]

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@SkrOYC wrote:

We came from a platform that was not Google's so why are they pushing us to that direction.

Look at people that now has to be in Google Cloud Platform / Workspace to be able to have AppSheet Enterprise. I'm being pushed to that with no need.

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I understand your feelings but you have to accept the fact that AppSheet is now a Google company.  Period.  It WILL be Googlified.  It Will be further integrated into their technology stack.  Google WILL position the platform in a way that "encourages" users to begin using their other services.  It is simply business - and a good business model from Google's perspective if I am being honest.

You should elaborate on HOW and why you are being "pushed" into the other Google areas - Workspace and Enterprise (AppSheet is already considered part of Google Cloud, I believe).  

[SkrOYC]

I guess I care too much about the platform to the point that I really don't want to leave but I know from long ago that is the best decision for someone that doesn't like Google services.

I just wanted to see if there is some hope that people that's not under the umbrella of Workspace will be able to use the platform as editors or not

[WillVerkaik]

Not to try and go down another Rabbit hole, but essentially Generative AI is going be more of an issue for Low/No Code development platforms as you are desiring.   I am convinced that these platforms if not part of a larger ecosystem, will be quickly marginalized.  For generalist developers ( a talented assembler of technologies), Generative AI will be a god send and expand your capacity well beyond specialized engineers.  The GWS ecosystem for integrating technologies is a must to maintain relevancy.  Google must solve this for itself.   IMO Expect more aggressive transformation inline with your point. 

[WillowMobileSys]

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@SkrOYC wrote:

hope that people that's not under the umbrella of Workspace will be able to use the platform as editors or not

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I don't understand this.  I do not have a Workspace account and have no issues, so far, in using AppSheet.

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@SkrOYC wrote:

I really don't want to leave but I know from long ago that is the best decision for someone that doesn't like Google services

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This doesn't make sense to me either.  I don't like Microsoft but yet I do use some of their tools because the tool serves my purpose. 

Lastly,  I don't quite get what is so different about the AppSheet platform now versus pre-Google that you feel you can't use it and are considering leaving?  We need transparency!  🙂 

[SkrOYC]

Since you use Google services, if you are pushed to be part of Workspace maintaining the current cost of AppSheet licences you pay, most probably you won't have problems with it, while businesses and others (like me) have conflicts in that regard.
I do care about the one that provides me with the service, even if the service provided is the best in the world, so that I could just reject the idea.

Think about people not using TikTok for the same reason. Is there a better TikTok out there? Nope, their algo is better trained than Meta's and Google's, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to use TikTok if I have privacy concerns from the way ByteDance deals with the data from their users. Same with Google and Meta for me.

This leads me to think that I should leave before it blends completely into Google's umbrella. I'm still using AppSheet with a Microsoft account and I don't have problems currently doing so, but can the AppSheet team shine some light if in the future we will need to have a Google account under Workspace in order to keep using the platform? All indicates that is going to happen, but they seem to be unable to tell us

[WillowMobileSys]

It sounds like your concern is that you will be forced into a PAID Workspace account to be able to use AppSheet.  I haven't gotten that impression at all.

Currently, AppSheet is NOT included in Workspace.  It must be managed by the business separately - included as an add-on.  My understanding is that it will be included as an optional tool a business can select - in order to be managed within the Workspace account.

But I don't think that means Google will be forcing everyone to sign up and get a Workspace account just so they can use AppSheet.  If there has been information to the contrary, I haven't seen it?

Workspace is a re-organization of G-Suite, a business platform which was out there since 2006.  My impression is that the Workspace accounts simply provide, seamless integrations within working teams, additional security, business benefits AND OPTIONAL inclusion of other tools as needed - providing for discounted bundled packages.  All in the same manner that G-Suite did...just better with more flexibility.

In all this time, many MANY, Small businesses have always been able to upstart and use Google services for virtually FREE.  As the business grows, they have INCREASED usages resulting in service fees.  This is as it should be.  I don't see any signs this will change.

What has you thinking it will be more ominous than that?

[SkrOYC]

Paid or not, just the fact that AppSheet could be just inside Workspace is my concern and even though we might think it won't happen or similar, investing resources into a platform that could eventually do it is something that makes me feel it's a lost effort.
Just needing to use a Google account is my problem, doesn't matter if it's free or not.

What makes me think this could be the case is how Enterprise licences are managed currently where they force you to be a Workspace customer and get the licence for AppSheet Enterprise from there. From experiences like @Daisy_Ramirez's and (afaik) @Martina_Hawkins', you need Workspace for Enterprise (correct me if I'm wrong)

[WillVerkaik]

Appsheet is actually bundled with Workspaces.  This is the only reason we are using it.  With our Enterprise Workspace account it is provided as Appsheet core services.  It's integration with Bigquery and Chat are creating a business case that is justifying our interest.   The ability to leverage OUs for access within GWS is compelling.    Essentially, not unlike M365 with Powerapps, the tighter the integration to GWS,  selfishly leads to our greater interest.   

IMO, the more time spent focusing on features and defects that satisfy GWS integration, the greater our large enterprise user base is committed to pressing forward with the technology.   It has to achieve enterprise level status before it can be considered viable.    

[dbaum]

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@WillVerkaik wrote:

Essentially, not unlike M365 with Powerapps, the tighter the integration to GWS

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If it's any consolation to @SkrOYC or others, AppSheet significantly lags Power Apps on this front.

[MultiTech]

It can definitely be difficult to position yourself or your business if you're relying on something that doesn't communicate in a way that works for you.  Most of the time it's been my experience that those who know typically would LOVE to tell you, but they can't due to XYZ reasons.

[WillowMobileSys]

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@SkrOYC wrote:

the fact that AppSheet could be just inside Workspace is my concern

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I don't think this will be the case... just like GDrive, Sheet, Docs, GAS, Meet, Chat, etc are NOT inside of Workspace.  As far as I know,  we will still be able to use AppSheet as a standalone product just like those other services.

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@SkrOYC wrote:

From experiences like @Daisy_Ramirez's and (afaik) @Martina_Hawkins', you need Workspace for Enterprise (correct me if I'm wrong)

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This is to be able to manage a TEAM of developers across a single corporate domain which is precisely what Workspace (and its predecessor G-Suite) was designed for.  The ADDITIONAL advantage, in my understanding,  to these businesses is that they can bundle these other individual services to manage and pay (if needed) for them as well as manage the TEAM members and access all in one place.

[SkrOYC]

So if I try today to pay for Enterprise being a Microsoft user they shouldn't ask me to be in Workspace nor have any kind of Google account? Because it seems like it's what a lot of people have tried and failed.
From the last months, looks like the AppSheet Sales department dissapeared and was replaced by Workspace's one

PS: Btw, I'm trying hard to not sound like this is a complain because I just want to clarify concepts that are so undercover and the new AppSheet team hasn't been transparent about.
I think we need to know where this is going in the long term since a lot of us have spent time and money for a couple of years now in the platform and makes sense to need to know where we are standing

[WillowMobileSys]

I think the confusion you are reading about is for users who already have Workspace accounts and trying to determine what AppSheet paid services are already included.  Depending in the Workspace subscription level, certain AppSheet plan levels are included and others could incur add-on costs.

For you, I found this in the Google AppSheet FAQ:

[SkrOYC]

Thanks John
Actually I'm not confused, just worried for the things we don't know.

I'm being more cautious about my usage in the platform for personal stuff while we don't have more info about plans for the future. At least my clients are not so nitpickers as I am

[Daisy_Ramirez]

Sorry to arrive late to the party here but in my recent experience @SkrOYC is correct with regard to AppSheet Enterprise Licensing. I have a strictly Microsoft client needing to purchase an Enterprise License in order to integrate with Cloud Databases and after several weeks/months of working with sales, they would not provide licensing unless a GSW account was created. 

[WillowMobileSys]

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@SkrOYC wrote:

Actually I'm not confused,

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Understood.  I didn't mean you but rather others who are trying to figure out the AppSheet/Workspace relationship.  

I honestly don't think you have anything to worry about.  

[SkrOYC]

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@WillVerkaik wrote:

I am convinced that these platforms if not part of a larger ecosystem, will be quickly marginalized

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Maybe, but isn't that what the platform was before Google? And it doesn't mean was a bad platform

[WillowMobileSys]

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@Daisy_Ramirez wrote:

after several weeks/months of working with sales, they would not provide licensing unless a GSW account was created. 

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Daisy, thank you for the input. 

Something sounds off.  AppSheet's documentation, excerpt included in this thread, clearly states that a Workspace Account is NOT required and specifically calls out Microsoft as one of those providers.  

Could there have been some specific functionality your client's organization was trying to get included along with the capability of connecting to Cloud Databases?  Functionality that is only included currently with Workspace accounts..maybe?  Or maybe the particular Sales Rep was mistaken?

I also have a client who is strictly Microsoft and recently switched to Database over a year ago, had issues and switched to a different Database just severa; months ago.  I have spoken with them often and I am fairly certain there was no such requirement to have a Workspace account.

[Daisy_Ramirez]

It's a great question @WillowMobileSys . I'm a huge fan of GWS but this speaks to the severe lack of sales support and/or inexperience.  I struggled with this as I mentioned for weeks/months and reached out here as well for direction but the guidance came back confirming the account was needed and I could not string my client along any longer.  I'm sure lots have had similar experiences but even level 1 technical support could not assist.  Even a completely down app (typically a high-priority technical issue) didn't receive a response for over a day. I'm grateful I was able to get the client up and running quickly with a few out of the box ideas but scary to think I didn't have the backup.

I sing the praises of this community daily.  I'm an experienced appsheet developer, but If it wasn't for this community I'm not sure I could effectively support my clients.  

[WillowMobileSys]

I contacted Support and asked these 2 questions:

1) Is a Google Workspace account required for AppSheet Enterprise plans? If so, why?
2) Are there any situations where an AppSheet Enterprise plan requires a Google Workspace account?

The response was this:

Where ever the idea is coming from that a Google Workspace account is required in order to use the AppSheet Enterprise plans, it is incorrect.  A Workspace account is NOT required whatsoever!

[Daisy_Ramirez]

A million thank you's for inquiring. This is extremely disappointing.  If we can't depend on the direction provided by the organization selling the service, I'm at a loss.

Thanks again

[Martina_Hawkins]

@Daisy_Ramirez , @SkrOYC , I struggled for months too when I needed to move data to an Azure SQL database as a Microsoft user because we outgrew Excel.  I have been forced to go through a third party called Cobry who created a google account for us. I was also forced to store documents in Google Drive as they couldn't be read from SharePoint.

[Martina_Hawkins]

I now get a monthly invoice from Cobry and not AppSheet. Cobry are a Google Appsheet Partner.

[SkrOYC]

Maybe some AppSheet Team members are actually working in GWS and others don't. And they are just starting to get a sense of what AppSheet actually is and where it should point to.
In other words, maybe there is no transparency because, for the first stage of the integration to Google, there was no clear goal and they are just starting to get to a point where AppSheet has it's place more defined.

If this means a better platform, support and sales process, great!

[SkrOYC]

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@Rafael_ANEIC-PY wrote:

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Btw @lizlynch @Roderick @AndrewB @Michelle ...
Fixing the bug is a better solution than changing my post